Episode #63 - What’s Wrong and Right in HR Ft. Jeanne Achille - HR Tech

In this episode, host Joel interviews HR Tech Veteran Jeanne Achille, Founder and CEO of The Devon Group. She shares what it means to be a genuine leader, why companies should double down on their frontline workforce, and how effective communication continues to be important in the workplace. 

Key Takeaways: 

• The HR tech community is uniquely collaborative and supportive, with individuals helping each other even if they are competitors. 

• Working with family members, such as Jeanne's daughter at The Devon Group, can be rewarding but requires navigating unique dynamics and boundaries. 

• Leaders should address the root causes of conflicts rather than just the symptoms, fostering a more productive and cohesive work environment. 

• Authentic leadership involves being open about personal challenges and tough days, while maintaining appropriate boundaries and professionalism. 

• Despite current market conditions, recruiting technology remains a critical area of focus for organizations looking to attract and retain top talent. 

• HR tech is making progress in democratizing coaching and expanding global capabilities, enabling companies to better support their employees worldwide. 

• Investing in and elevating frontline workers is crucial, as they are the backbone of many organizations and possess untapped potential. 

• Communication skills will remain essential regardless of technological advancements, and individuals can improve these skills by seeking mentors and leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT for practice. 

• Shallow interactions, lack of empathy, and viewing technology as a silver bullet solution are concerning workplace trends that leaders must address by prioritizing the human element and creating a culture of value and belonging. 
  

Jeanne's reminds HR professionals and business leaders to prioritize authentic leadership, effective communication, and to invest in their employees at all levels. By doing so, organizations can foster a more supportive, productive, and resilient workforce in the face of ever-changing technological and societal landscapes. 

View Episode Transcript

You've been in the industry, you know everyone, everyone knows you. Why do you keep doing it? What keeps you passionate about doing this every day? 

I own Devon, founded Devon, have been at it 24 seven now for decades. It's a wonderful place to learn. Every day I learn something new and I'm a big fan of being a student, being a student of life. One of my daughters actually decided to go into the company after some kicking and screaming over the years, she saw the wisdom of perhaps joining a family business. And so my succession plan will eventually be to do a handoff to her. So yes, I will be drinking my tea someplace Joel, you are assured of that, but the Devon Group will go on and on as it has for years already. 

Have you found that mother daughter and employer employee was a bit of a weird switch for you? Is anything that anything happened along the way? 

Many times, yes. The funniest part is when we are introducing ourselves, usually it's a new client relationship and we're introducing the client to the team and the team gets on a Zoom or we're there in person and the client will say, wait a minute, you have the same last names. And then of course I turn the floor over to Kate, Kate Achille, who is my partner here at Devon and my daughter, and she explains it. And it's quite entertaining. What's interesting is how many people are very comfortable with it. I think we probably had more apprehension about how was this going to fly externally. We find the customers are very comfortable with it. The only time it gets a little weird is when they assume that Kate and I still live in the same house. 

It's very interesting how I'm observing more and more of this though, to some extent, Joel, it goes to the fact that it's really hard to find qualified talent, and what better talent than talent in your own family, that in this case, has the expertise having studied journalism and such. So she, of the Achille girls, was the best qualified to come into the business.   

It's fascinating though how we are seeing this almost a return to the agricultural model where family members come into the business and bring it forward and change it also, redefine it. So, going back to your initial question, though, why do I do this every day? This is a community; the HR tech community is very collegial. 

It is a community that you can turn to when you need something. I've never been in another category where people really help each other, even if they're competitors. I see collaboration and cooperation. So that's a fascinating dynamic that doesn't exist everywhere in business. 

I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about that community. I wonder for you, what has been the biggest blessing for you in that community?  

I think there's a lot to be said in making other people successful. So the type of business that I'm in, my role is to make other people advance, whether it's in their careers, in their business, to attract funding, to attract customers. So I'm very much in a support role. It's very gratifying when I can connect the dots and see where someone we worked with, perhaps when they were very early on in their career, or maybe even shaky startup, and now they've had this meteoric rise to be wildly successful. That's extremely gratifying.   

When you look at leadership from 2024 and beyond, the qualities of a good leader, how have you seen those leadership qualities change over time?   

Let me first speak more broadly about what I've seen in good leaders. A good leader doesn't need to win or lose. It's not a binary type of dynamic. And I think when you let that go, it enables you to be a much better leader. You don't have to create a win-loss dynamic. You don't need to have reward or punishment. And you yourself as a leader, you really have nothing to lose by making other people successful.  

The leaders that I've seen really bring out the best in people are the leaders that we all look up to as we progress in our careers. I think sometimes that's difficult, Joel, depending on the industry you're in. I think that's easier in certain industries. Professional service is a good example where people are the asset. And so bringing out the best in your people is so important. As opposed to when I've been in organizations earlier in my career where it was more of a manufacturing environment and it was very transactional or very production oriented.  

I also think that 2020 might've been the great reset for a lot of people in leadership roles because everyone was exposed more to humanity and the fact that we did not have a playbook to get us through it. We also identified very quickly that we didn't have the infrastructure, the resiliency. We didn't have the tools. And anyone who tells you they did is full of it, by the way. I'm gonna call them out right away on that. But what we learned is, similar to when there's a hurricane or some sort of natural disaster, the disaster we had for several years was: no one really knew what to do. No one really had guidance on it. You could see where people were struggling.  

I think as we look at this next phase of what business looks like and what the employer-employee relationship looks like, it's important to look at resiliency. And much the way we're creating resiliency in our natural resources, we need to build resiliency into humanity and make sure that people have the tools to take care of themselves and have the license, the comfort level to step back when they need to step back. As opposed to going full throttle 24-7, that's a recipe for disaster for everyone involved in that type of dynamic.  

You sent me an article titled Conflict Debt. Talk to me about that. 

I read that in Human Resource Executive Magazine and you know, the whole HR category, the themes tend to repeat themselves. That article piqued my interest because I don't think we realize what we carry around with us. When we go into a meeting, maybe we are predisposed or prejudiced in some way already because we've had a bad experience with this team before or we're assuming the worst outcome rather than the best outcome. I think this concept of conflict debt, you know, friction, reducing the friction points, giving people again the tools that they need to manage through this, I think this is an interesting concept. 

I think hopefully we're going to see more and more focus on empowering people to call out situations where they are seeing some baggage coming into a situation that requires teamwork that perhaps they weren't aware of previously. I think awareness is a big component in this and putting a name on it is very important to help people be aware. And that's what piqued my interest about that one. 

As a human race, we've gotten so shallow in how we deal with people and situations. We haven't taken the context of this individual or those people into consideration. What is your perspective on this movement towards this non-root cause level conversation that we tend to have? Do you see workplaces getting shallower?   

No one wants to do the hard work. And what I mean by that is, we need to get through the day. Everyone wants to get through the day. But if I really care about an employee, I'm going to sit down and talk to them, much the way you just described, "Hey, I'm having an off day. I just want you to know it's not you, it's me. I think I'll be better tomorrow.” Okay, so that's the scenario that fosters positive productive outcomes. Conversely, a scenario where you come in mad as a wet hen, you're maybe punching the wall or slamming books around or something, and your team is like, what's going on. People are fearful and there's a lot of anxiety out there. The only way we can alleviate anxiety is by talking to each other. And sometimes people don't like what you have to say, but at least if you said it, it shows that you respect them and that you're giving them the respect that you should give them.  

Performance reviews: one of my pet peeves in HR and especially in HR technology, because I don't think anyone's fixed this. I can't point to a vendor that I think has done a good job. But this article is talking about, we're not going to have annual performance reviews anymore. We're basically going to give you feedback every day on your performance. 

And I'm like, what?  

Now, I'm not saying you should wait for an annual performance review. That's really not fair to anyone to ambush them and kind of save up everything, whether negative or positive. The whole area of not talking to people about their performance, making them feel good about what they're accomplishing and what they're contributing to the company, that doesn't cost you anything. We're not talking about compensation here. We're talking about what actually gets people going, gets people enthused about being part of the team. So I'm fascinated that they would even dumb that down.  

I think communications is a cornerstone of effective employee relationships and any relationship, quite frankly. 

How do you feel about that delicate balance between vulnerability and sharing too much? 

This is actually something I've experienced as a woman in the workplace in particular, because there are all these tools and such that fall under the wellbeing category that are supposedly intended for us. Part of knowing your team and knowing your employees is to also understand their boundaries. And everyone has different boundaries. Some people need help with their boundaries.   

When you let people know, “hey, I understand, we've all been through this,” and you create that moment of sharing, you see better engagement, relaxation amongst your team, better interactions amongst the team. 

It really builds a cohesiveness and sports is a great analog to this. Ss you look at sports teams, when they go out to play they have each other's backs.  

One of the things we haven't talked about very much though is the role of technology in all of this. And some of the problems that we're talking about, of course, are pervasive in the workplace.  Like, hey, check the box. We have a new ATS. Yay. And they're really still not dealing with the people issues. So it is still people, process, technology. No one piece makes anything move forward. 

What are some of the trends right now that are positive? And what are some things that you're like, I'm not sure if we're focusing on the right things right now? 

I don't think we're focusing enough on recruiting. And this is still when you look at the research that's out there coming out of the analyst firms and also the McKinsey's and other thought leaders. Recruiting is still the number one issue for any organization. How to get the right people in the right jobs, how to augment the leadership team with additional skills, with additional talents. How do you source for AI skills from a talent pool where there are no AI skills because two years ago we really didn't need AI skills. So I think recruiting is still a big pain point. And what I'm unfortunately seeing in the HR technology space is some of those vendors either are not capitalized to the extent that they're going to make it through this current downturn, or they're taking their eye off the ball and saying, we're not gonna be recruiting anymore. 

Sometimes you have to double down. And I know that sounds like you should, but to some extent you are gambling. Sometimes you do have to double down. Sometimes you must deepen your bench. That might be organically, it might be through acquisition, but I would say this is the time to be doing that. Historically, when there's a downturn, there's a corresponding upturn. And the only way you can be ready for what comes next when that upturn takes place is to make sure that you're rock solid. If you start to waver in your mission at this point, you could potentially not make it, not be there, not be the vendor of choice when the upturn takes place. And one of the things that's interesting about recruiting is it's rarely that the upturn is slow. It's usually we go from standing still to full tilt boogie. So you either have to be ready or you're not in the game. So I think recruiting technology is an area where as we look across the terrain, that's an area we should be focused on during this period of time. 

And are there exciting things that you're like, finally, someone's addressing this and it's been about time or anything that seems to be on the horizon that gets you extremely excited to get out of bed tomorrow? 

I think I'm seeing a lot of progress in the coaching technology category. And I think initially we saw a lot of smoke and mirrors in that category. So we're seeing more of the democratization of the category where coaching and mentoring is now being formalized and it's available to everyone in the organization as opposed to just the C-suite. So that's certainly one thing that's interesting. 

A lot of focus on employee benefits, which still remains potentially the least sexy of the HR technologies. But if you talk to job candidates and you talk to them about what creates interest and distinction for them from one employer to another, employee benefits are enormously important.  

We're also seeing a lot more global activity. So I think that HR technology vendors are doing a better job being prepared to handle if the employer suddenly has 25 employees in Paris, as well as 50 employees in Indianapolis. We're seeing more of that depth being built.  

What's something that I haven't asked you about today that you hoped I would? 

 Well, most everyone asks me about the HR Technology Conference, so I'm going to make a shameless plug. I have the pleasure of chairing our virtual conference, which is taking place this June and also chairing the Women in HR Tech Summit in September. Of course, you can get information about both of those events at HRTechConference.com . But going back to the earlier point about community, those events have been instrumental in building community, bringing like-minded people together, facilitating peer-to-peer learning, and giving people a chance to have a good time also. So I'm just delighted to be part of the HR Tech Conference family. 

What's something that you hold dear, that you believe at the core of who you are, that if everyone else believed too, you think would really make this world a better place? 

It's unfair of me to say this because it's my business to be a communicator. That's what I get paid to do. I can't overemphasize how important it is to open your mouth and say what you have to say. And if you're not in a place where your voice is respected, then please go someplace else where it is. Because you should be able to state your case in a meeting, not be stepped on by one of your colleagues, not have your ideas taken by someone else, not feel that you couldn't open your mouth because you would not receive the same respect or reception as everyone else. So I think that a big oversight in our educational system, in our onboarding processes at companies is the fact that we don't place enough emphasis on how to communicate, and that there's a spectrum there. I mean, we're talking about communicating even to the whistleblower level. If you have a grievance and what your process should be for reporting that grievance. But I think communications is an important life skill and an important workplace skill. 

Do you have a suggestion on how to better communicate? 

I have two suggestions.  

1. Find a mentor in the organization. Doesn't need to be formal. Doesn't need to be full-time. Sometimes that person doesn't even know that they are your mentor. But find someone that you're comfortable with as your role model and someone who you feel might have some degree of advocacy for you. That's the first recommendation.  

1. The second recommendation might sound kind of funny, but we've talked a lot about technology today. ChatGPT is a great resource to help you crystallize ideas. I'm not saying you should consider it as 100% perfect because it's not. But if you're struggling with how to say something or what the right tone is, or maybe even to explore different tones that you might want to approach, using a tool like that, can really help you bring it together. So we have a lot of advantages from a technology standpoint that we didn't have years ago, and I really recommend that people leverage them.  

---

Jeanne Achille is a trailblazer in the HR technology space with over 25 years of experience. As the founder and CEO of The Devon Group, she has spearheaded the launch and promotion of thousands of products, services, and companies since establishing the tech PR agency in 1994.

Her strategic guidance has been instrumental in numerous successful exits, including IPOs, mergers, and acquisitions. Jeanne's formal training in issues management enables her to serve as a trusted advisor to CEOs and investors, navigating crises and unanticipated changes.

Beyond her work at Devon, Jeanne chairs two major HR tech events - the HR Technology Conference Online and the Women in HR Tech Summit held at the HR Tech Festival Asia and HR Tech Conference. Her impact and influence are underscored by her recognition as a Top 100 HR Influencer.

Drawing from her studies in organizational leadership at Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management, Jeanne brings an understanding of the spaces where technology and human resources intersect. Her experience and industry stature position her as a leading voice shaping the future of HR innovation.